Dr. Cain is interviewed by Glenn Brooks of Vibrant Living on the topic of “Your Symptoms Are Your Saving Grace.” In this podcast Dr. Cain discusses a new perspective on symptoms and the possibility that they provide you with the opportunity for true, powerful, and transformative change. Tune in and learn how to live your best life.
[00:00:01] For ages, mankind has been searching for solutions to resolving symptoms.
[00:00:06] But what if the symptom is the solution?
[00:00:10] Today’s conversation is entitled Your Symptoms are Your Saving Grace. In this podcast, I collaborated with Glenn Brook’s owner and founder of the Unscripted Power Network and Rose Rivera of Limitless Life Evolution.
[00:00:31] This is my mental health doc. Welcome to the journey towards a life empowered. I am Dr. Nicole Cain.
[00:00:44] I’m Glenn Brooks, I want to welcome you to be on the formula. On the unscripted power network. And I’m honored to have Rose Rivera with us. I want to say you said you made such a contribution to me on and off the air, your questions, your inquiry. I’m just happy you’re here. Happy that we’re doing this together. You know, in terms of the formula about health, I was thinking about this because I had this conversation with my son yesterday as I’m preparing to write this letter. And I was just thinking that what I learned in my household to some extent was what we’re going to get into today, which is that symptoms are a gift and that wonderment, this deep appreciation of life and being part of life is fun and fundamental to having a bigger life and experiencing another level of well-being.
[00:01:46] I realized growing up, I never heard about the bigger level of wellbeing and wonderment. What I experienced was, is that there were these symptoms. You know, I never saw my grandmother stand up. So she was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I saw her at a hospital in a pool with a harness, and I think I just gained a lot of fears about health early on because it just seemed like, oh, there’s just medications and sterile rooms. It seemed the opposite sort of wonderment. There was nothing about this other energy, your quality of life other than my adoptive father was very interested in the work of Dr. William Wright, which was a lot about the idea that we gain armor and that this armor cut us off from the bigger energy of life that we get armored as people, we get rigid in our bodies have tight breaths.
[00:02:40] And so that was in the backdrop. But at the same time, my father’s taking a lot of medications.
[00:02:45] So at a certain point in my life, I got really interested in this thing called homoeopathy. The doctor who put that together, the pharmacist, the physician, he was asking questions about true deep healing and removing these layers of obstructions. We have Dr. Nicole Cain with us, Well, this is my homeopath. She feels like a family member. I trust her a lot. And we’re going to really dive into this series on the gift of symptoms and wonderment as a way of life and discovering new levels of wellbeing, and energy together.
[00:03:30] Rose, What happened in your household? What did you take away in your household?
[00:03:41] Because we all start someplace. And now these days, there’s a big rush to get help. There’s a lot of this fear about getting this thing called help. And God knows the commercials now more intense than ever. Every so often I watch tennis and it’s like, Jack Earl Jones was on and he was trying to normalize this really intense diabetes product. And the symptoms are just dreadful. And they’re playing in the background with someone’s whistling. And it’s wow, it’s such a different orientation these days is that we’re going to get these awful conditions. They have nothing to do with wonderment, they’re degenerative and dangerous. But every time the medications sound ten times more dangerous.
Yes. So growing up around health, I had kind of an interesting experience because I grew up in the Virgin Islands where the pharmaceuticals, they really hadn’t taken root yet. And so it was still a lot of traditional medicine based on plants and tinctures and herbs that are indigenous to the Caribbean. So those are the first go-to’s in my background. For once, something was wrong when you were sick. Whatever the case may be. And then there was also a very kind of stark, tragic thing that happened, so to speak, in my family. You know, I had a grandmother, a great aunt, who both had strokes and I was little and they both became paralyzed so neither one could walk. My grandmother completely lost.
[00:05:15] I think to the left side of her right side. She couldn’t move and she couldn’t speak. So I had my grandfather. He really died slowly and horribly of cancer. So I had that as well, kind of in the whole thing. So I think the conversation that we’re about to have today around symptoms being like a gateway, a doorway to much bigger health. If you pay attention to them correctly and you have the right perspectives, I’m really interested to hear what’s about to happen, because I think there are symptoms that we have if we listen to our body and we don’t tune them out with Tylenol or painkillers and things like that, but rather this like what is my body trying to tell me? Hopefully, before we have major issues like a stroke or a heart attack. So that’s what I’m interested in and excited about for today.
[00:06:12] She’s in the mental health field, too, and I realize like so many people now are taking antidepressants and times anxiety. It’s all over the place. I think they’re reintroducing some it’s a new form of shock therapy. So it’s a very and more kids, of course, are getting oriented that they have ADHD. So we’re in this very interesting time of the symptoms of the enemy and the pharmaceuticals are the solution. So we’re in between the gift of symptoms and wonderment.
[00:06:44] That’s a pleasure to be here. And as you guys were talking, I was kind of reflecting on my own journey towards being a clinician. And it’s so much the opposite of what I hear. Rose, you were talking about as your family was very much oriented towards natural remedies and herbs and using nature as medicine.
[00:07:05] And I grew up in the Midwest. And the culture there is to trust your doctor and take your medicines. And as long as you don’t have symptoms, life is good. And I found that there was a sort of element of complacency that was fostered in that culture. And complacency is familiar. And stepping beyond the bounds of familiarity can be quite challenging for a lot of people. And so even bringing to light this conversation, I can anticipate that some people might find it to be uncomfortable because it requires stepping outside of what I call the zone of reliable performance. So what that means is we all have bounds within where we function, where it feels reliable and it feels safe and it’s predictable. And we have a modern medical system that tells you this is how it should be. This is how you should expect to feel. And this is even the definition of how health is. And then the conversation we’re going to have together today requires that the person be at least willing to contemplate stepping outside of that zone, inside of the zone of what’s called proximal development and proximal development. It’s in reference to when you put yourself just a little bit more outside of your comfort zone and explore what possibilities may be there for you on that journey.
[00:08:45] Mm hmm. Which sounds expansive.
[00:08:48] Yes. I think this conversation is going to be incredibly expansive, and my hope is that all of the people that listen to this can at least walk away with one thing that they can do. I love a program by Dr. Randy Carlson talking about intentional living. And what he does is he talks about what’s one thing that you can do after whatever you’ve learned to make a change. And I think sometimes these conversations can be incredibly inspiring, but for some really overwhelming. And so my hope is that each person that hears this can decide at the end of the session what’s one thing that I can do to maybe step outside of my comfort zone and start to move towards making some real changes towards wonderment.
[00:09:39] Mm hmm. How would you define wonderment, such a beautiful word?
[00:09:44] You know, I think I use the word wonderment because it’s something that Samuel Honeyman, the founder of homeopathy, he used this word as an objective for health. He wrote a book and it was called The Organ on a Medicine. And the organ on medicine is broken up into different aphorisms. And each aphorism has a topic, an aphorism. Number nine talks about the goal of hell, which I think is absolutely beautiful in its language, because it takes what our modern expectation of health is. And it turns into something absolutely unique and phenomenal in what he says. I’ll kind of shorten it a little bit cause he can be somewhat pedantic. But what he does say is that in the healthy condition of man, the spiritual voice for that vital force, otherwise known as the dynamics, is unbounded. It retains all of its parts in a way that is harmonious and it helps the person so that they can freely employ their bodies, their minds, and their souls for the highest purpose of existence. And so wonderment to me is in reference to you. Glenn, you Rose. All of our listeners out there being in such a state of health that they can do what their highest purpose is in obliging wonderment, where people look upon them and say, this is absolutely amazing. How can I. How can I have that? How can I achieve that?
[00:11:24] Hospitals are in very different places.
[00:11:28] Oh, absolutely, if he expectations changed from an absence of disease or an absence of symptomology model to a presence of wonderment model.
[00:11:46] Well, thinking about that. What I loved about that is it brings in a lot of purpose to somebody’s life. You know, I think that for health that’s such a big deal is when we truly feel that touch with that, whether our bodies are able or not. But that vital energy that you just spoke of, when we’re in touch with that and we feel like we’re here for this. This is the mission. And let me live it out as great as I can. And that being the demarkation for whether I’m healthy or not. It takes us beyond just wanting to feel good in our bodies and takes us into it. My mission is this in life. What could I do? Whether it’s emotional or mental or physical to get me to that next level. Right. To let me express this in the world at that next. Whatever it is for me. So I think that’s one of the most beautiful ways of thinking about health. I think that I’ve ever thought of. I’ve heard. So thank you. That was right there. That’s taking us out of that zone. All right. We’re going in there already.
[00:13:01] I love that it brings into play existential thought because so many people are so bogged down by just pure survival that we don’t get to explore existentialism by existentialism. I’m referring to exactly what you said, Rose. Those deeper, the things of life. What is the meaning of life? What is the meaning of death? What is isolation and loneliness as opposed to community connectivity? And that incredible stage of empowerment and wonderment. And so health in my mind should include all of these variables and not just looking at a disease-based model of how are the red blood cells? Is the kidney function test in a state of normalcy, aka psychotic hallucinations gone, but rather going beyond that and helping that person start to explore those? That’s what I call the meat of life in a process not just looking at the end goal of no have been achieved enlightenment and RenderMan, but rather what is the process by which I’m going through that. And so it’s a processing based exploration that health can offer us a platform for.
[00:14:26] It seemed like there was a confusing or. Maybe that was treated with which treated in a harsher way. Well, we treat a nonvital way, because often when we break down or we’re treated in a mechanistic way, that we’re kind of a machine and we break down, we need this medication. So I don’t think I ever had a doctor actually ever mentioned Vytenis. So like I remember when I was a kid, there was we had Voyles or something. And I remember that was like he got an antibiotic and you did this thing where no one ever spoke of something. It was never spoken there was anything else other than you just kind of did this thing and you went to the pharmacy and hopefully you wouldn’t get it again. So there was no other. Another way of expressing you might go to a concert and say, well, that was a very. That was that was vital. But very rarely was there a moment where someone said, oh, that’s inside of you and you can become unblocked. And that may even affect your health. And like I realized, it was a disconnection. Other than my only connection.
[00:15:36] I remember I think when I was it, I had planned towards, I think when I was 17. And by dermatologists prescribe desiccated liver. And I remember chasing down the Mr. Stoppie truck to get Aunt Soda to take down my big liver pills, but I had no connection. I was kind of like supplements you like you did this. It was weird at the time. Big supplements to you. But I ruined my clothes. What went away. But he didn’t say to me, well, you’re in this vital system. We want to feed the system and then also the vital system it eliminates or detoxifies, it purifies. And you don’t have to maybe even get the disease that’s in your family line. Like there was a whole bunch of questions that were never answered other than I think Jack late in his life. You said his father passed away at 50, but he didn’t think the way his father thought he would eat the way he did. All of a sudden, I realize it changes our life and we think, well, we have the ability to actually tap into something and remove some of these obstructions to change that. It changes. Everything really is the game.
[00:16:44] You’re making me reflect upon what you’re saying. And you’re making me remember a patient that I worked with once.
[00:16:52] And if you don’t mind, I’d like to share the story with you because I really think it’s emphasizing exactly what you’re describing. And so I’ll change a few of the details just to protect her identity. But so we’re going to say she’s like a 50-year-old female. And she came into my office and she had an autoimmune disorder. And so her goal was to get rid of the symptoms. She the autoimmune disorder is characterized by she had lots of little tumors all over her body. And so her immune system was attacking her own body tissues that were causing them to form tumors and break down. She’s very sick. And so she came to me with a goal of treating this. And so through the process, she was really open and willing to start exploring what the symptoms actually meant. And I did a little bit of counseling with her. And interestingly, what we found when we went back to her life and went back to when all of this began is she had grown up in a very difficult household with a father who is overly critical and very quite abusive. And so she would help him with his job doing paperwork, and she didn’t do it correctly. He would literally take her and throw her across the room. He’s very physically emotionally abusive. And then years later, when he passed away, she took over that self-flagellation in his place.
[00:18:15] And so what we discovered and what she discovered throughout our time together is that the emotional abuse that she was inflicting upon herself actually started to manifest in a way where her body started to attack itself, where she developed the auto. And of course, this is theory. But the interesting thing that came from that is that the actual emotional discoveries that she was making correlated with subsequent improvements that we were able to see on labs and imaging. And so with treatment, we were doing a mind-body treatment, concomitant homeopathy. She actually got well, the tumors went away and her autoimmune markers went down. And so the phenomenal thing is that what you were describing, Glenn, is the way that we relate to ourselves, the way we think, the way we talk is going to very much impact the way that our bodies can exist in function. And so sometimes the body will cry, tears that the eyes can not. And symptoms can help us actually foster awareness and find meaning. And this was something that she hadn’t even been aware of as a connection. And science wanted to describe that story because autoimmunity is prevalent in our culture. And it just makes me wonder if there are listeners who may be dealing with something similar and it may be valuable to start that process of awareness and exploration in their life.
[00:19:47] You know, is that as you told that story, I was just moved to say that I don’t think that there’s a lot of people that don’t want to do that kind of internal work, but that kind of internal work is very difficult and scary and places in the psyche that people don’t want to go. Right. It’s so much easier. Just pop a bill, Bill, Bill better and go along with your day instead of actually going inward. All of this Sauveur, which, of course, then is reflected in your body. No, I can see where there’s a lot of resistance, particularly because we don’t teach that sort of thing. It’s not a concept that we grow up with. It’s not something that we teach children. Well. You have to kind of look inward. If you’re having physical problems and that’s sorry. That’s just the way it is. You have to deal with your stuff. And I think we live right now in a culture where we promote to the highest degree, not dealing with your stuff. You know, you have any whether it’s a physical symptom or an emotional symptom. You know, you’re feeling depressed. You’re feeling down, whatever the case may be. It’s something there that you have to look into. There’s a reason for it. And the longer you don’t look into it, the more it’s going to manifest in these negative ways. So I think just to acknowledge that for a lot of people, that’s a really scary thing to even venture into. So this patient that you had, I think was remarkable and brave enough to go to heal.
[00:21:20] I admired her so much because I can tell you for in my own story, having Zayat in the past and for someone to say you can take this medicine and the anxiety will go away or we can open up this closet that you’ve been ignoring for, you know, your entire life and your anxiety could get worse.
[00:21:41] And I don’t have a guarantee of the outcome, but it could oblige wonderment. What are you going to do? I can tell you that’s a really hard decision when you’re already suffering so much. It’s one thing when you’re in a state of, you know, state of balance, in a state of comfort to go through that closet. But it’s another thing if you’re already really suffering and you don’t really have the resources to do that. Yes, you’re right. She was a really special, special person in her story, had a fantastic ending. But it’s not an easy journey to embark on.
[00:22:13] There’s the homeopathy maybe share about the Homi up to the homeopathy. Health care to mobilize innately, in other words, it kind of tapped into a vital force. And so I think what makes internal work so difficult is that. It’s almost like the trauma comes up and then people don’t know what to do. That was the help would help her release some of the trauma.
[00:22:38] Yes. Yeah, I am absolutely in love with homeopathy because it helps empower the person to achieve their goals of health and wellness. And it does it in a way, by stimulating your body’s natural ability to heal as opposed to actually causing a chemical change. And so the analogy I often use with my patients is that when you’re in a state of health here in the state of balance and so it’s like a tree, you know, trees, especially palm trees are really flexible, you know, in Arizona here. Yesterday, we had a massive monsoon storm, and the trees that ended up losing branches and breaking were the trees that were more rigid in the palm trees. They just swayed and they bent. And then today they’re all fine and upright again because they had that flexibility. But, you know, having that’s really important. And so homeopathy does is it actually will help increase the body’s resiliency like a palm tree to be able to shift and bend and move. And it can actually make you more resilient. And I see this because I do homeopathy and I do counseling, especially MDR, which is a form of counseling where we use bilateral stimulation, its eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy.
[00:24:02] And I find that when my patients are responding to their remedies, they’re able to go through that and your process much more easily. They don’t get stuck versus those patients who aren’t using the homeopathic treatments and are just doing the therapy. Sometimes it could be a lot more difficult. It’s kind of like when you wake up in the morning, if you’ve had a horrible night of sleep and your body aches and you’re exhausted in your groggy, your achy and then you’re driving to work and someone cuts you off, the way that you respond may not be the same as if you had an amazing night’s sleep and a great breakfast and you feel really happy in your favorite song was on the radio and someone cuts you off. And so in one example, your body and your health and your mind are in a better place versus the other. And homeopathy can help shift you into that better place by which you can achieve healing much more easily.
[00:24:58] I was moved like Rose. I was thinking about people that I know who. They’re in the basement there. They’re in a place where they’re.
[00:25:10] You can feel the good people, you could feel its goodness, but then you know that they have. They have something they carrying into here. Hear someone go through the other side. It’s so inspiring and meaningful to hear. And this year, Bonnie ship, you know, like, wow, it’s just the. I guess it’s this idea that we get, you know, we have it like we have one act and the second act, but really this is a third way or this other energy that they really don’t get to stay in this thing that. Marched to death. It really that in the end, the story about her is so beautiful because now she is alive. She’s not suppressed the symptoms. Does it push them down? And she has a new body, it sounds like she’s a weight. It’s I think she just has a new life and she’s ready to live a better life. That’s that’s better. A wondrous thing. They don’t see that on the commercials. You never hear them on the side of it. Right. They never say. And after that one-year urination, you go to the park and enjoy, enjoy your dog. They never talk ever about that. That’s one of the weirdest phenomenons. Anybody smiling and shaking their heads. Yes, but there’s a yes. And your story is, though. Yes. And the other in the. Let’s poison or suppress this story.
[00:26:28] Yeah, I have another story I can share with you. I love stories because I feel like patient success stories show that what we’re talking about can be taken from theory in conversation and we can actually see how it can work and how it can manifest.
[00:26:46] And so share with you another story, if we don’t mind. This is a man who came to see me because he was referred by one of my other patients and he had a lot of respiratory and digestive issues. And he had been dealing with these issues for 30 years or more. And his family members have been treating them for a long time and asked if I would take his case and try to treat him homoeopathically. And so it’s interesting, as we did, there is a technique called flow back. Check me where you can look and say, OK, when did this start to flow back to that very initial memory? And so we started to explore it. And interestingly, all of his symptoms started when he emigrated to the United States when he was four. And so we said, OK, well, what is that immigration has to do with your respiratory issues? Is it a change in the food? Is it a change in the diet? Is it a change in environmental exposure? And so what he ended up doing was we did a mind-body technique where we put him back in that state and allowed his younger self to express what they were experiencing at that time. It’s very meditative, almost like hypnosis, where you just go back, be in that state, and allow that part to speak. And what it turned out is that there is an incredible amount of deep-seated anger and a feeling of neglect by the parents for taking him away from everything that he had known back in Europe, bringing him here. And with that anger, he started to develop all of these physical symptoms. And then while we were actually doing that process, his body started to exhibit the symptoms in my office.
[00:28:34] He had some difficulty breathing. His stomach started hurting. And so we worked with that. And so interestingly, he developed bronchitis after we did that session. But it was bronchitis by symptomology and not diagnostically. There was no sputum culture. Showing an infection was very interesting. It was very likely what we call a fictitious disease or an acute flare-up. What we say, a latent Saura and I can spend a lot of time getting into that, but perhaps more for a future session together. And so he started to manifest old symptoms that had been suppressed with steroid medications. And once he got through that, while continuing to heal that anger and resolve these underlying issues. It’s been six months and he hasn’t had anything come up since then. And that which is absolutely remarkable for him because he was exhibiting stomach pain every day of the week that was preventing him from functioning and working. And so going back to that initial root cause is that emotional upset. We were able to help him resolve that issue. And it took a lot of digging. But the cool thing is, is that while he was really ill and these symptoms are flaring up, he emotionally felt so much better. And normally you think, well, I have bronchitis. I feel terrible. But for him, it’s like this. I feel oddly good like I can’t really breathe that well. But I feel good. Like I feel like something is moving, which is a very interesting thing I hear a lot from patients is even if they feel worse while going through that closet emotionally, they’re in a better place for you to use uncommon distinction.
[00:30:25] Right. That’s right. Beautifully said I.
[00:30:29] It’s such a unique thing about, well, about what you do at home. And homeopathy that you’re in touch with. Maybe it’s though the Mode live or would you call it what would you call the thing that they’re that? Well, I think a lot of them want to live this sense of optimism. Maybe a sense of this storm is clearing. How how do you how would you say about?
[00:30:51] It’s different for everybody.
[00:30:53] For the last patients, he was a fighter. He refused to remain sick and he tried everything else and came to me as a last resort. He tried medicine. He tried to do the commercial say, but he wanted to walk his dog at the park. Like you said, Glenn, he wanted to feel better. And so for him, it was just sheer stubbornness, like a refusal to lie down and give up. And the patient that I described before that is she had this sense inside of her that there was more to life than she had been living. And she didn’t know what that was, what it looked like. But it was this like something inside of her that she couldn’t quite put her finger on. So just keep going. Keep going.
[00:31:52] I was just tapping into something called roads that. You know, it’s such an I know it is. I really love. I just think to study with Dr. Susan Love. So she did she wrote this book called me Kai. And so she came up with this idea that the old research on bonding and attachment is outdated.
[00:32:18] If they just did a study where she showed in 20 weeks during this specific brain exercise, the brain of divorcing women changed. And when they kind of test them, they love the husband, get them in ways that were unknown to them. So what I find really interesting and inspiring and engaging is.
[00:32:39] How that’s that’s an interesting phenomenon because a lot of people just can’t live in the drift. They kind of get into being in a collapse. That will be an acceptance that it’s a collapse. And I realize a lot of people kind of have an approach to life in class. So they don’t really have a sense of how much my father actually he kind of at a certain point it couldn’t move forward. He just kind of went to bed. Went to bed the next 30 years. And I remember he pretty much and then his body reflected the class. So it was kind of. And yet he was really smart. That was a paradox.
[00:33:24] I mean, that’s what I meant by what I wrote, part of what Rose wants to do is go back to the Caribbean and teach people how to become more abundant, independent of the tourism-driven economy. So you think he said, well, that’s such a huge thing that people can have another sense of something rather than resign and collapse and that that you’re saying that they’re as they rebound? It’s not a temporary thing when its sunsets are accessing a bigger life. So in a sense, we’ve got to read the language, plywood with big health. Is that because it isn’t just battling a symptom? Because clearly the symptom went away? It couldn’t explain this other quality. Liveliness or aliveness or by timeliness?
[00:34:13] Yeah. Just interesting it’s a different conversation. I’m I guess what I’m curious for the people watching is kind of like, well, that’s really an interesting thing to question. How alive? You can be. And really, because it’s kind of it’s a new medicine that. So, Rose, how was the second story?
[00:34:38] Brilliant, brilliant, because I think the whole thing that we’re talking about here takes the conversation of what is healthy and what it is that we’re even going to the doctor for to a whole new level. And the idea that we can use our bodies and our emotional physical symptoms as a Katar and a doorway into even better, it’s not like, OK, I start here and then I got sick and then I drop down here and then my best hope is to get here again.
[00:35:13] Yes. It’s really no. The bigger hope is that you drop down here because it’s telling you something and it’s actually a signal that maybe you can grow a little bit more and you can live a little bit more and you want to go back to the doctor and have whatever it is that you do and you want to be up here. Right. That’s your next level. So I think you look at symptoms as almost this indicator for us girls like, oh, I’m feeling kind of crappy again. Something’s showing up for me. That means I’m maybe I’m stuck and it’s hard for me to grow up rather than how we normally see it and conceptualize it as I was feeling great. Now I feel like crap. I’m sick, I have cancer, I have whatever it is that I have and I play. There’s not even any hope of getting to where you used to be. That’s like the big call, but it’s more like, well, now let’s just avoid death. So I think reframing it to look at it like, mom, maybe you’re actually just getting symptoms because it’s time for you to be even bigger help if you really track this back and solve this correctly.
[00:36:18] I mean, that just turns everything upside down. What we know and I think that’s you can look at it in a more beautiful way and a more hopeful, positive way, which is, of course, what your body and your mind need to kick in. Everything your body needs to do, any kind of real feeling. So it’s a great perspective. So I kind of want to turn the conversation a little bit back to what we started with and go back to the idea of in a sense of a symptom and maybe talk about what is a symptom? When should we pay attention to it? What is it that we’re looking for and what could it be?
[00:36:56] I love that.
[00:36:57] And so interestingly, Miriam Webster has two definitions of this symptom. And the first is a change in the body or mind indicating that a disease is present or something bad exists.
[00:37:12] So the second definition is it’s a sign of something bad, which is basically the exact opposite of what our conversation today is about. And so, you know, if you grow up with this idea in mind, I have a symptom. I have a disease. This is something bad. Of course, you’re gonna go to your doctor and be like, move. This takes this symptom away from me. This is an indication of something bad as opposed to what you were saying. Rose is the symptom. There’s a message in that symptom and that message can help me live my best lives. And I love analogies because I think that analogies can help people think of a concept a lot more kind of clearly. And so one thing I often like to discuss is in the early 20th century, miners would take Canary Birds down into their minds to warn them of potential disasters. Are you guys familiar with this? Yes. Yes. And so what would happen is the mines would be filled with carbon monoxide, which is a deadly gas. You can’t smell or taste it. And that can form underground. And what was happening is miners were dying and so they would bring either a mouse or this little canary down there. And the canary was, would you know if there are any signs of something wrong like they were in distress. They couldn’t breathe or they died. Then the miners kick it out. And so our symptoms are like little canaries. So it can indicate there’s something that’s not quite right. And if we can pay attention to those canaries, we can make changes before something more serious occurs. Into the Canaries. It’s a blessing. It’s a wonderful thing. And it increases awareness.
[00:39:01] And when we have a symptom in homeopathy, what Honeyman says is a symptom is untuned of the vital force. The vital force is what we’ve been talking about during this conversation of that inherent ability to heal yourself, that he’s inside of you, that says there’s something more, that thing that drives you forward. And so awareness of the UN into the vital force again. Awareness of that symptom or that imbalance can lead us down a path of enlightenment. It can illuminate the reality that the absence of disease is not health, but rather that the presence of health can help us achieve wonderment. And so the goal is to understand that your symptoms are your saving grace. Your symptoms are your blessing. Your symptoms are your gift of life. Your symptoms are your gift of hope, of becoming not just here the status quo, but elevating beyond what you ever imagined being capable of feeling. Be doing. Contributing. Experiencing. And so your symptoms can foster awareness so that you can move into uncharted territory where you can make a difference. It’s the best gift that you can give yourself. It’s the best gift that you can give those around you. By taking that perspective from Miriam Webster and flipping it upside down and saying, my symptoms are my blessing, they’re my tool and I’m going to take these, I’m in a harness these, I’m in a fight. I’m going to move forward into uncharted territory because I refuse to accept the status quo. I refuse to be sick. I want to get well. And not only do I want to get well, I want to I want people to look at me in wonderment as an inspiration for themselves.
[00:40:58] Well, that was a beautiful progression. Wonder if some wonder is awareness. I’m passionate about this.
[00:41:06] I know what they become. It makes me want to see you again. They can make it inspires me. It inspires me to see past what I. Because initially I’m still actually I had an interaction with a family member and I was like, it was hard. And then I realized listening to you, it reminds me of the opportunity to have a home, a more a deeper connection, because the symptoms telling me that that is a really another relational system, possibly another possibility, more love, and connection. And I realized it’s. And I see it in the culture around us. I just see we so black and white about things. It’s either it’s bad, it’s wrong. It’s not this. It’s ending and. And it’s you know, we have a kind of a noninvitational way of. But usually, it takes patience. I guess what I appreciate about what is this method with how you work with people, the codes, that it takes patience to let the cork rise. It’s almost like an inquiry. And that’s very different than how we see medicine or health. We think. OK, what pill?
[00:42:19] And you’re kind of saying that this patient or this vital patient that.
[00:42:26] It comes up ways that are beyond sometimes our intellect or our the way we’ve been trained. And so it’s like. I guess the system itself is a very honoring, compassionate into the system. It’s really artery to the patient. It’s very honoring of a process that’s beyond. You know, that’s beyond really hurting her, a non-hurtful cyst. It’s a system that’s kind of like, Wow. Something here.
[00:42:55] It’s just a very brilliant it’s very. I guess the implication of being in a family that way is a lot of ways you would be in your family system. Someone of the system would say to you, hey, you know, this is a symptom. And let’s explore that rather than your garbage.
[00:43:12] You’re no good or it’s always gonna be this way. That’s a death sentence. If you think about the feedback system, I did meet a woman who came to see me, wrote a book called Your Brain. Your brain bleeds every word you speak and your brain hears every word you speak. And she heals the soul of a brain injury. And she just started talking to her brain. And rather than we have the education that our bodies outside of us. It doesn’t have this consciousness. We’re not able to access it. We got to go to someone outside. It’s. It’s it just seems like such a beautiful thing, a beautiful thing that you’re participating with someone. Well, I get a piece of art or something rather than you’re doing something. You kind of attuning and then giving them this very unique medicine, what makes homeopathy a unique medicine?
[00:44:04] What I love about what you’re saying about the woman with a brain injury and apathy is it takes the dependence away from the people around you and it puts the empowerment back in the person.
[00:44:19] Because so many of us are trained that we are not enough, that we don’t have the answers. Trust your doctor. Some medicine is going to help. This is going to help. If you do this diet, you’re going to feel great. If you follow my program, you’re going to feel great. But what makes homeopathy different? And what that woman you were describing, what’s different is that you can heal yourself. Just like if I wake up in the morning and Sam and I have a terrible day, I’m going to have a terrible day. I will. Or if I have a patient who’s like I’m if I eat this food, I’m going to get sick. And they tell themselves that constantly. I see time and time again that they do they start to experience what their brain is telling them they’re going to experience. And just like in the reverse. You can actually change your body. And I told this story when we were together last time. But I’ll tell it again quickly is there were two women and they were both diagnosed at the same time with lupus. Glenn, do you remember this story? Story? Yes. I’ll share it with our listeners and to Rose. And so they were diagnosed with lupus around the same time. It would have been a great study because they were both in their mid-thirties and they were from the same area and they went to the doctor.
[00:45:41] He’s a homeopath. And he was giving them both. And they didn’t know each other. He’s giving them both well, prescribed medicines. And interestingly, one of the women got well. And one of the women did not. And the doctors racking his brain and he can’t figure out what’s going on. So that one of his patients wasn’t achieving success. And one day at the end of their session, she’s his last client. And he walked her to the door and he watched to make sure she got to her car safely. And he saw her get in and pull away. And the solution became quite apparent to him. And when he saw her car pull out of the spot, he noticed on her license plate. Lupus MI. Lupus, MI. And so she had identified so much with having that disease. Her brain had told her that she had this disease to such a degree that she would put it on her license plate, served as an obstacle to cure in her case. And I wish I could tell you how the story ends, because my mentor, you did not share that. But I think the implications are absolutely fascinating about the sense of empowerment.
[00:46:52] And so going back to your original question, homeopathy, what can homeopathy do? If homeopathy can help. It helps stimulate your body to heal itself. Your body will heal itself. The remedy doesn’t kill you, but your body heals itself. But homeopathy can’t undo or it can’t necessarily treat what messages you are giving yourself. So active participation is necessary. Just like that woman I was telling you about the autoimmune disease who’ve been hating herself all these years. Well, my pathic remedy helped her get into a state of better vitality. The body is starting to move and shake and shed and heal. But she also had to work on how she was speaking to herself and the messages that she’d been giving to herself all those years. And so when the apathy is absolutely powerful, it is absolutely empowering and effective, but it has to be combined with the person’s relationship with the self and that fostering of awareness and that conversation about what they expect from themselves. Do I expect complacency or am I willing to step out of the zone of reliable performance out of my comfort zone into the zone of proximal development, that zone where we start to grow and expand and stretch outside of our norm?
[00:48:17] But you go back for a second to the idea of awareness, especially, you know, thinking of symptoms, because I think we’re taught that at the first moment that even something wrong comes into our fears sphere of awareness.
[00:48:32] We shut it down, right? Oh, I have a pain in my knee. I go take a Tylenol. I have this.
[00:48:37] I got to go fix it. So if you could just speak to that for a minute about what it means to actually tune into yourself and first have maybe a baseline of what is normal for you at this point so that when a symptom does come up, it’s quickly and easily recognized and not ignored or pushed aside and the importance of not ignoring it.
[00:49:01] I love that. That is brilliant. And the one thing that I would like to have my patients do is I like to have them right there. Biography. And the reason for that is because Dr. Epstein is one of my mentors.
[00:49:18] And he coined the phrase, your biography becomes your biology. And it’s brilliant because if you start to understand your biography, who you think you are, as far as your identity itself, your identity with your family system, your identity with your body and your bodily experiences, and then what those mean, it can actually start to create a system of empowerment and change. I have a young woman that I work with and she has post-traumatic stress disorder, which has resulted in something called depersonalization or dissociation. And so she’s very, very ill. And any time when we started working together, she got a little bit triggered. She went to personalize. And what that looks like is she would emotionally, mentally leave her body and she could see herself floating about her body. And she her body would be in a comatose state where she couldn’t get out of it. And this could last for days. And so one thing that she did with our work together is she journaled all the time. She did her biography, but she wrote down her experiences and she processed having shoulder pain. What is my shoulder pain telling me? What does this mean? And the great part about this is that when she came in to see me, I was able to prescribe a homeopathic remedy for her where she was more stable and she just she dissociated much, much less. And that created space for her to look at that shoulder pain in a way where she felt safer.
[00:50:55] And she was actually coming in each of us and telling me what this meant and how it went away. When she identified that and she had seen chiropractors and acupuncturists and all she was doing were becoming aware of her symptoms, journaling about it, processing it, and then the body didn’t need to express that symptom anymore. It was. Oh, thank you. I resolved. I don’t need to express this. And so as far as awareness, write your biography. Write down what your life is and what it means to your symptoms. Look, what could your symptoms mean and engage in that process of exploration. Write down your core beliefs. Take time to ask yourself difficult questions. For example, what are my wants? What are my needs? Do I feel like these are getting met often or wants and needs? Tell us something is missing. Ask yourself. How can I live my best life? If something is missing or if I got a magic pill and all my problems and limitations disappeared, what would that look like? If I had no problems, no health problems, no family problems, what would I be doing with my life? Ask yourself these difficult questions. And the fascinating thing is your body is going to respond to that, whether or not you’re even aware of that, just like my patient with the respiratory the digestive issues. He had no idea of the result link. But once she started exploring it, his body honored that he got well.
[00:52:28] While I love what you’re saying because you’re coming so many questions that I use my own clients because I don’t come at it from the health perspective. But I comment often from the career and mission perspective. I always tell them. What would you do with your life if I didn’t need money and everything that you needed to survive was provided? So you buy food, water, shelter. Now, what would you do with yourself? And to be honest. Most people never ask themselves that question. They’re so involved in the money game. And how do I survive that? When you open it up. I’ve seen people completely just shut out because they couldn’t even bring themselves to put themselves in the scenario of not having to have a job for money, for food, for all these things. I love that you’re doing the same line of questioning, but with help, you know, they’re coming to you. Something’s wrong. They’re doing all right. Now, how would you live if this was gone? If you had all the health in the world. So I feel like you and I were coming, like at the same.
[00:53:35] This is a vital idea. Just from different perspectives. So I have a deep appreciation for the work you’re doing.
[00:53:42] I love working with Glenn and in particular, too, because he takes these concepts and then he says, well, what is the meaning?
[00:53:51] And Glenn, I hope it’s OK. I’m kind of talking about what my perspective is, is what you’re doing. Take these things and you see what is the meaning of this. And so when we have all of these getting our ducks in a row, fostering that awareness. I love, Rose, that you’re coming at this from a different angle because we’re speaking the same language and more people that hear this. Contextualized may start to change the way that they’re looking at their life and their health. And then going into vibrant living and finding meaning. And so taking this one step farther and new when you do this with such equanimity is we’re transitioning beyond our self in order to find meaning. So, you know, Glenn, you do this with your deep connection with people doing podcasts like this, reaching out and serving others and serving the community, because that is so important as a fundamental part of this entire conversation is changing the focus away from the self and then focusing on the community and connection. And so it’s where we’re able to look at something larger than me, larger than the I whether it’s spirituality, a meditative practice, yoga, volunteering with children or animals, whatever that is, that makes you feel connected. And I would even go farther and say, what makes you feel connected into the collective unconscious and the collective unconscious for our listeners who aren’t familiar with that is a term used in psychodynamic psychotherapy.
[00:55:29] And one of my favorite practitioners of that is Carl Jung. And he talks about the collective unconscious as this place that everyone is connected, as everyone digs into that it’s where weird deja vu comes from. It’s where when you have a feeling about someone you love and you call them and they needed you at that moment, it’s where we’re uniting existentially as a human-animal treat, nature being race. And so getting outside of the self and then focusing on other people, oftentimes that can be the most powerful and therapeutic thing that you can do for your wellness. So I love Rosie. You’re talking about that. And Glenn, I admire so much that’s what you’re doing with this mission of vibrant living and all these things that you’re you’re driving towards. And I want to thank you for providing us a platform to have this conversation and also to provide a platform for other people to perhaps be inspired to dig into community and connection because the more that this message is spread. So imagine what we can do to transform our community, the world at large, as it has so many, so many implications.
[00:56:45] Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t say thank you. You know, Nicole, that you in. I feel like you talked about the collective unconscious. I feel like I could be bonded in relational connections way. It was almost like I knew you both. I had a recognition of you both. And then they were made to feel that it goes back to Einstein saying about, you know, the most fundamental question you get asked, is the universe a friendly place to be? And then feeling this sense of confirmation because otherwise. Otherwise, you know, we live in doubt to feel recognition and to feel that at this deeper level. I guess in some ways, I’ve always felt like when I was 10 or 12, I couldn’t understand why people. I remember thinking, how do people divorce? I couldn’t quite get the concept. It makes sense. And now I kind of feel like. Yes, something happens. And I guess that just having this conversation, in some ways, it opens up something because it’s because I think we were riveted into the conversation of the content. The problem, the cloud. So this conversation has a different context, a different way of seeing and potentially participating. And I love that. I mean, that’s how I, of course, I think about you sitting with people. And I think about those moments in my life. I remember once I was running a health food store in this refrigerator, a prayer man. He was crying a lot when you work on the machine. I remember interacting with them because I. I had a few ideas about vitamins that might help them. But really what it was, is I was related to him and he made himself.
[00:58:30] And I remember the only story said to all. You saw the victim. But really he missed what was relevant was. I did connect with him. And there was a third space that opened another something happened. And I part of my day like as you were talking, I was thinking about how it began this morning. I was kind of in that I was in a certain I was all stopped this morning. And I realized with that opens. And I so am I focused, opens something else occurs into it to have a conversation, but right now people could be watching this. And for the first time, they could be questioning their pills. Right. They think they take the pills every day or they could be questioning the harshness of their voice. And these are things these just subtle, but they have such power. So it’s kind of like. And sometimes I don’t know how things occur. I mean, I’m on the holiday weekend, Memorial Day. I call this in. It was beautiful, beautiful it’s called the Apple tram. They actually acknowledge them. It’s right by Jacob’s pillow. And it’s right by Apollo. It’s beautiful in and I called and I told about what I do like in seconds I tell I’m a travel journalist, but I’m a lot about what happens to people when they enter a third space that’s different than home and work. And I thought this one didn’t hear me at all. You know, the guy was very funny. I spoke to her and she said, OK.
[00:59:50] And I said, Yeah. And I said usually. So she calls me back and she says, the only just wants to have you. She goes, there’s no charge. And of course, I thought, you know, I always thought it was missing. So there are moments in life where. Something occurs is beyond what we’ve been, what our inclination is, what we assumed. And these are moments that I think open up a whole new life. And. I guess the very moving, the very Diversey, very real. So let’s imagine someone coming to you. Would they really want is a prescription’s right. They really want this prescription. And it only surprises them that the process. Imagine letting down so much that the process of the interaction opens them up so they could receive something different in life. And that’s, you know because I and I realize there’s something so magical about that, that I’m still. I know I’m still in orbit, I’m still, you know, curious about it, kind of like what I was curious. I went to my daughter, she showed me a chart, a screening of every TV shows, and during this interaction. She told me the owner of the house had a Great Dane and I was all excited about the Great Dane. But the owner of the house was a very funny interaction. She might have got a little drunk that day. And she took me to this room. And I remember being in this room with her and the Great Dane. It was like the great things bedroom. Pretty Apollon, Great Dane.
[01:01:15] And the great thing was running around. And I just. And the woman was telling me this poem, a Great Dane. I just remember there was something kind of magical and awkward and funny about it at the same time because I know also this really is great. Thank you. Kill me. All as soon as you cheat. She continues telling me the poem about Great Danes. And I realize, like, wow, there’s so much that in some sense we don’t know. And to defer to anxiety, which I guess I kind of learn, and it became natural. And now there’s this other thing, it’s kind of vital awareness of this other place to kind of go to if you think about how that might change our brain. It’s just it’s really inspiring. So as people are watching us and questioning a. I mean, that’s really what I want to do, a movie around this. The unscripted part of the movie, I really want to see what happens when people are at the base of the mountain together. They become unbar. How would they climb and be together if they knew that each moment that the things we share the most power, sometimes with most struggle. So. I’m inspired by it. By this, I want you to know, it’s helping me remind me of the gift of symptoms. Because I, I want to say that in my cycle, sometimes I don’t like symptoms, you know, or the idea that might be a symptom coming down the road.
[01:02:41] Yeah. Well, and I what I really want to touch on that. I love it. You said, Glenn is one is that the connection was the most important thing that you offered that man. And I love that you were willing and able to take the time to. I think that’s beautiful.
[01:03:03] And so the connection is what heals. Carl Rogers is a huge proponent of that. Karl Rogers is a psychotherapist and he was all about unconditional, positive regard and the therapeutic alliance. And so I think the connection is key. It goes back to that going beyond fostering awareness and going into community and connection and transitioning beyond the self. And there is something challenging that will emerge that is important for our listeners to be prepared for. And I think it would be valuable for us to do a conversation about this is what do you do when you have moved beyond the flat earth? And so the flat earth is going to it’s a term coined by Doulis. And Dr. Dooley wrote the book Beyond FLATTERS in what he’s referencing is when we live on a flat earth. We see things in a certain way. And then, Glenn, what you are describing is an entirely new dimension of being, a new dimension of looking at things, changing the face of symptoms from something bad, according to Merriam Webster, and changing and converting it into something empowering and beautiful. And then what happens after you’ve made that transformation? Because now you’re no longer in a flat earth in your self, but you’re existing in a flat earth in our culture. And so what do you do when that transformation has occurred? There are so many stories there.
[01:04:34] So wonderful. I think his name is Alexander Shiah and he talks about the Camino. And the Camino is a height that people can do where they go from one end of the continent to go to Spain and they go all the way up to the other end. And this is all type that people have been doing for thousands of years. And it’s purported to be enormously, powerfully commercial where people find themselves. They change. They are enlightened. But the hardest part is when they return back home after that. All of the rules have changed. And so what do you do? How do you maintain that? And so you have this new perspective. OK, I don’t like anxiety, but I know that it’s a good thing. I know I’m working through it. But then you go home and your families like, why don’t you just take out a man or your doctor’s like, why you’re worse. Why? What is your doctor doing? How do you exist in the flatters? How do you come back from the Camino when you’ve been transformed? And I think that the answer to that would require more time than we have today. But I think it’s really worth it.
[01:05:45] Yes. But I think I think we actually dying into the next format. I think that’s really good. It’s not like what you just caught up as, something that I. Well, used to be.
[01:05:59] You go to a seminar during a weekend and they come back and they begin for a few days and they crash because that was almost like they had a little opening and then all of a sudden life like this again. So, yeah. No, I think I think that you know, to live integrity and to kind of bring this awareness, to make it relational. And, you know, I think that’s you’d love to get into that is ah ah. Part two. Fantastic. So, Rose, I’m going to defer to you since. You’re so into vital, vital relating, and I love my life. I really felt how you were moved so much.
[01:06:35] But the caller’s story about the girl, I really felt it really moved you so deeply. That movie, a movie that you remove.
[01:06:44] Yeah, I know so much about this conversation. It’s gotten much deeper than what I expected, which is I mean, we’ve gone into the collective unconscious. And I think that’s where it’s great because that’s where my work is. And it’s hard to explain what it is that I do. Sometimes, unless someone has experienced a little bit of that for themselves and that shift in perspective because everything that I’m doing is on that level, it’s very hard to translate it into this flat earth. Right. This planet. Yeah, but that’s what I’m doing. So I think to move into that next conversation about when you have this new perspective, how do you come back, what you do with it? What are the practices that you can do within yourselves to not shift back and to not get kind of slaughtered in the meantime emotionally as well? I think that’s an amazing conversation. So the next go, the national TV. I’m really looking forward to that. Me.
[01:07:41] Me too. And I want to thank you, organic guy organics for. I decided to put this in our healing line at all levels because I realized that as we kind of finish this segment, a lot of people don’t know what to do after a crisis. That something like line, even when you come back and you feel healthy, it gets shaken your world. So I love to kind of pick up with that. And it’s huge, it’s huge, and I’m inspired, by the way, the listening in depth that we all share today. So I want to thank everybody for watching. I love your responses and your reflections or so you want to share with us. Our lives are life precious. And we’re going to continue right here and beyond the formula on the unscripted power television format.